[This story contains spoilers from the first two episodes of Tell Me Lies season two, “You Got a Reaction, Didn’t You?” and “I Shall Now Perform a 180 Flip-Flip.”]
If Tell Me Lies fans thought season one was toxic, they’re in for an even “darker and weirder” season two, says showrunner Meaghan Oppenheimer.
The new installment of Hulu’s hit series picks up as exes Lucy (Grace Van Patten) and Stephen (Jackson White) return to college, not speaking following their dramatic breakup at the beginning of summer. They quickly find themselves entangled in a new version of their addictive dynamic, however, while their friend group navigates their own rousing journeys.
Related Stories
The first two episodes, which released Sept. 4, are already packed with shocking moments, from Bree (Catherine Missal) and Evan’s (Branden Cook) breakup, to the introduction of new characters Leo (Thomas Doherty) and Oliver (Tom Ellis), to Pippa (Sonia Mena) and Diana’s (Alicia Crowder) kiss in 2015. And while there’s much more to come, Oppenheimer teases, “There are a lot of things where you think you kind of know what it is early in the season, and it’s not.”
But one thing is for certain this season, the tension between Lucy and Stephen remains high as they deal with the “consequences of their actions and how it impacts all of the characters surrounding them.”
Below, Oppenheimer chats with The Hollywood Reporter about balancing all of the different elements of toxic relationships within the show and navigating storylines with new and established characters, and also teases the upcoming moments she’s most excited for fans to see — as well as what she thinks might get her “canceled” this season. She also spills some details on her upcoming series Second Wife, which sees her collaborating with Ellis, her husband, again.
There is high anticipation for season two. How did you handle that added pressure of following the fervor around season one?
There’s always been a lot of pressure. I would say there was actually something reassuring about knowing that people reacted well to the first season and knowing we had a fan base. So that gives you just a little bit more confidence. I think the main thing was, what do we do now that we no longer have that central sort of death mystery? And it just means you can go darker and weirder and deeper with all of the emotional storylines.
How did your previous projects and overall experience in the industry prepare you for Tell Me Lies and help it become such a success?
I’ve gotten very used to disappointment, and I’ve learned that you have to be able to let an idea past what you initially thought it was going to be. You can have an idea of something, it can be perfect in your head, and it is going to change in execution and if you allow that change to happen, then great. But it’s when you try to cling on to things that aren’t working and you’re not malleable that things fall apart. But I think I’ve just got a bit cynical and I never celebrate until something has definitely happened, because I’m like, “Oh, it might not work out anyway.”
You previously described this season as “more of a war story.” What did you mean by that?
Stephen and Lucy are broken up at the start of the season and they’re no longer really in a close romantic relationship. They’re set out more to get even with each other, to hurt each other, but they have to do it from afar. The challenge was, how do we keep that tension between them now that they’re no longer in a relationship? And it’s also about the consequences of their actions, and how it impacts all of the characters surrounding them.
In episode one, why was Stephen so annoyed that Lucy might have moved on (even though we know she hasn’t)?
He’s a narcissist, and I think he feels in control when people care and when they are bothered. It’s partially his ego, that he doesn’t need to be with someone, but he needs to be on their mind and being forgotten is the worst thing. But I think there’s also an aspect where he needs to have control over her to keep himself safe because she’s holding so many secrets of his, that part of it is just that — he needs to know where she’s at.
Do you think there’s a world where Stephen and Lucy could ever coexist on good terms?
I think it depends what your definition of good terms is. (Laughs.) I think they can have fun together, for sure. But I don’t think they could be together if either of them is in a healthy place. I don’t think that they should probably [be together]; they’ve done so much damage to each other. I think they need to heal, probably away from each other.
Audiences know that Lucy still knows Stephen’s biggest secret (that he was involved in Macy’s car crash in season one). Is that still going to play a role this season?
Yeah, definitely! I think it gives her a lot of power over him that no one else has, and I don’t think she is fully aware of her own power in the beginning of the season. We will definitely see why Lucy matters so much to Stephen and what he realizes about the way she views him, and the things she accepted about him in season one that no one else did. That plays a huge part, specifically in Stephen’s emotional journey.
As for Lucy, why does it feel like she’s always trying to run from her pain and problems?
She’s very young, and she met Stephen when she was dealing with a lot of trauma that she had no vocabulary for and didn’t have the tool sets to deal with it. And then he just dug that trauma even deeper. This season, even though she’s trying to redeem herself for what she did season one, she’s still being dishonest with herself and with other people. And I think it’s really impossible to ever truly move on from something if you’re not actually facing it for what it is, and one lie begets another lie.
At the end of the second episode, viewers see Pippa and Diana have something romantically going on between them in the 2015 timeline. How do you decide when and where to include these teasing moments in each episode?
So for the first episode of season two, it was easier to structure because it sort of mirrored the first episode from season one, where we had an opening in 2015 and then the montage at the end is 2015 and 2008. I wanted to mirror that, but we constructed the 2008 storyline first and then we constructed the future storyline this season. And then it’s just about weaving them together and also knowing how much space you want between flash-forwards, how many episodes. So, we tried to keep it consistent.
But the Pippa and Diana thing, I just realized that [Diana] is the only character we haven’t seen in 2015, so we can do whatever we want with her. And so then I had that idea: that’s who she could be with. It was really exciting for me, and then figuring out how they got together was a longer, more intricate journey.
As for Bree, I feel like audiences are already seeing a different side to her at the beginning of the season. Why do you think she’s so intrigued with Oliver, and do you think it’s more than just a rebound from Evan since he hurt her?
In the first episode, Oliver notices something about Bree that other people don’t always pick up on. Bree is someone who is actually much wiser and stronger than people give her credit for, and I think she can play naive when it benefits her. [Oliver] calls her out on it and he’s like, “You were pretending to be a little girl, basically.” And I think that is jarring for her and very intriguing to feel like someone is actually seeing her in a way that her friends don’t always see her. And obviously, he’s charming and it feels good to be taken seriously by someone older. Also, she has a lot of her own issues from her family that make her really, really desperate to be seen and loved and wanted. And I think she feels very isolated from her friend group a lot of the time.
There are also a handful of new characters introduced this season, including Doherty’s Leo and Ellis’ Oliver. What was it like building their storylines with these established characters?
It was really fun! I think the most challenging one was definitely Leo, because Stephen is such a dynamic character and he has such a pull over Lucy that having a new love interest come in that matches that was a challenge, and we wanted someone who was equally flawed and interesting but completely different to Stephen. It was really nice to see Lucy laugh more. Leo brings out a different side of her and allows her to be funny and reminds the audience that she’s only 19 and that she can be playful. So that was really fun. And then bringing Tom in as Oliver was just really exciting. I had that character in my head before I knew that Tom was going to play it. And so it was really reassuring to know we had someone that I trust and that the cast already knew; it’s obviously a very tricky storyline and it’s a lot to put Cat [Bree] through. And so knowing that we had someone coming in who is a safe human … and I think he did a great job, and it’s also so different than anything I’ve seen him do before.
Speaking of Ellis, who’s also your husband, what was it like also collaborating with him on your upcoming series Second Wife, and can you tease anything about that show?
I like to joke that it’s like Stepmom meets Fleabag. It’s about an American girl who goes to London fleeing her past mistakes in New York, and falls immediately into a co-dependent relationship with this married British man. But it’s really a three-hander, because the ex-wife is an equal part. It’s not autobiographical; everyone will think that it is. It’s obviously inspired a bit by being a stepmom and the difficulties that come into a blended family, but really other than that, it’s really not autobiographical. It’s about the pursuit of love and the humiliating things we put ourselves through. But it’s a lot funnier than Tell Me Lies. It’s dark, for sure, but I think it’s equal parts laughter and tears.
Unfortunately, many people can relate to experiencing toxic relationships. What do you hope those viewers take away from this season?
I think we shame ourselves a lot about the things that we allow to happen in toxic relationships and it’s very embarrassing. So many of us don’t even tell our friends some of the things that people do to us because we feel stupid. And so I hope that people go a little bit easier on themselves. Also, I would hope that people who are actually in college and who are at this age realize, “Oh my God, it is just not worth it to put myself through this for this person.” And if someone is making you cry as much as they’re making you smile, then it’s probably bad.
There are also so many different elements that can make a relationship toxic — how do you navigate what to include in the show while also making it feel realistic and balanced?
It’s tricky. I think at the end of the day when something feels not authentic, you sense it in your gut. And there would be storylines where we put them in and something about it doesn’t fit, and then you end up going back and changing it because it feels too heightened. I think that if you aren’t connecting to it on an emotional level, you know it’s probably not authentic enough. But I always try to pull from some degree of things that have actually happened to me or to people I know. Sometimes you have to dial it up a notch to make it work for TV, but I’m just always so fascinated by the things people do to each other. The true stories are always the craziest, the stuff that I hear that actually happened and in the writers room, the stories people tell in their own lives are wild. So, I think just stick to the truth.
Are there any episodes or moments you’re most excited for fans to see?
There is a twist in episode seven, a decision that Lucy makes. But I think if I get canceled, it will be because of this. It’s something she does trying to help Pippa and it backfires. And it’s a moment that I came into the room and I pitched it, and it immediately divided the writers room into two. There were people that were like, “We have to do that, that’s great.” And then half of the room was like, “We absolutely cannot do that.” And so I was like: “This conversation is why we have to do it, because it’s so polarizing.”
With Diana’s storyline, there’s some stuff at the very end that I think will be really satisfying for people. We see a very different side of her. I also think that Wrigley (Spencer House) has some of the most devastating moments I’ve seen in this show ever. His performance is outstanding in the final two episodes. I would also just say a lot is just not what it seems. There are a lot of things you think you kind of know what it is early in the season, and it’s not.
If Tell Me Lies is renewed for a third season, do you already have storylines in mind?
I definitely have some stories in mind. I haven’t planned anything out too detailed yet, but one thing I would like to see is a lot more 2015. I want to see where they go in the future, and I think that everyone is probably going to want Bree to have some justice. I think it’s going to be like justice for Bree, hopefully, if there’s a third season.
***
Tell Me Lies episodes one and two are currently streaming on Hulu, with new episodes dropping every Wednesday. Read THR‘s interview with Grace Van Patten.
